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Post by AAron on Aug 31, 2005 17:08:57 GMT -5
seriouslly man i can talk till im blue in the face and some people will sware that something they read on the internet or heard from a friend is true about oil. everyone says that synthetic oil is great it is a miricle, it is a god send. etc.
does anyone actually know why they say this?
for the record in most cases it is false.
but anyways what are yalls experiance with this subject?
sorry about the rant
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 18:47:17 GMT -5
the only synthetics ill use are the ones that have synthetic base stock. like redline or royal purple race oil. otherwise i just use non synth in whatever weight i feel is best for the temp.
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 19:37:21 GMT -5
on LS1tech.com the local oil man Patman has done SEVERAL independent oil analysis tests on almost every oil out there.
# 1 hands down was german imported castrol syntec(the green stuff)
# 2 was i believe mobil 1 think it tied amsoil
# 3 royal purple
everything else tested about the same as dyno crap.
so yes there is a differance, if you get the RIGHT synthetic. to drive the point home, Ferrai will null your warenty if you do not use german castrol syntec!
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 19:38:26 GMT -5
for more info do a search on his name on ls1tech... you will find ALOT about oil  |
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Post by 1bad2k2ta on Aug 31, 2005 19:41:17 GMT -5
I have a 1986 Nissan Hardbody PU with the 3.0 V6 that I have been putting synthetic oil in since it had about 50k miles on it. It now has 187k, still doesn't use any oil, and if I drive it 55, I get 26-27 mpg on the highway, about 23 mpg combined in-town/highway. I used Castrol GTX 10W50 the first 50k, then Castrol Syntec 10W40 until about 120k, then switched to Mobile 1 10W30; been using it ever since. Brand new it was rated at 20 city/24 hwy. I attribute the jump in mileage to the taller tires (255/50/15 currently to the stock 215/65/14). These are about 1.5" taller and result in it traveling 1.025 miles for every mile. Anyway, mileage aside, I have never had a vehicle that lasted this long when I used straight dino oil for its entire life. Could be a coincidence, could be that it is Japanese (all my others were American-made), could be that I have taken better care of it and haven't driven it as hard (has still seen some rough miles from time to time). It is difficult to say, but in my own mind, I feel the synthetic oil has contributed significantly, and I will continue to use it. My new Corolla is approaching 5k, and it will get Mobile 1 at its next oil change. The TA had dino the first 3k, then Mobile 1 until the engine swap. New motor is still on dino until its next oil change which will be about 3k on it, then it will get Mobile 1. I feel it holds up better, especially in the Texas heat and under the extreme conditions this engine will be seeing. Not trying to convince or persuade anyone one way or the other, just relating my experience with it and confidence in it.
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Post by DocSpeed on Aug 31, 2005 19:43:46 GMT -5
Good to know mobil 1 was in the top three. Thats the only oil I have been using the past 5 years and don't plan on changing to another brand anytime soon.
I am in the process of testing mobil1's extended performance 15K oil. So far, I have 8K miles since my last oil change and everything seems to be checking out so far. I plan on changing the oil at 10K and cutting the oil filter in half to see if I can find anything interesting. That has been my only worry that the oil filter could not go 15K without being changed.
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Post by Alex94TAGT on Aug 31, 2005 19:48:59 GMT -5
Why -- What are your thoughts, Aaron? Let us have it.  As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the oldest and most-redundant topics out there. Millions of different opinions on both sides of the table. I don't believe that anyone really has cold hard facts, proving that one is indeed better than the other. If they did, the debate would have stopped long ago. Whether it be synthetic or standard dino oil, they all have to pass certain standardized tests before they are marketed to the public. Aside from that, I think it's all up to speculation... |
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 19:50:19 GMT -5
my lt1 has 125,000 miles on it, sees ALOT of hard driving, sees the track every year, has never been rebuilt, and dyno verified it has the same hp as of 3 months ago that it did when i bought it  she lives only on mobil 1 and german castrol when i can find it... |
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 20:52:51 GMT -5
ive always put castrol gtx in my lt1. 10w30 winter, SAE 30 above about 60 degrees. i had a 90 dodge dynasty that had 400K on it with just regular oil changes. i sold it after the 4th trans took a $hit in it. ive been told by petroleum engineers that if you are gonna change your oil every 3K you might as well just use dino. i may switch to redline 5w30 for the winter and then 10w40 next summer. ive only been putting about 4K a year on my car since i started working close to where i live.
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Post by AAron on Aug 31, 2005 20:54:11 GMT -5
Whether it be synthetic or standard dino oil, they all have to pass certain standardized tests before they are marketed to the public. Aside from that, I think it's all up to speculation... you just proved my point. no mater which kind it is it has to pass certain standards, if you look on all bottles that have the certified for automotive gasoline use. they pretty much are the same. with only mino detergent packages now that wasi you might notice a differance in race only motors. and most of those so called test rarelly go the full 3000 miles of stop and go driving or the 5000 miles of straight threw driving. oh and yes i have read all of Patmans stuff and none of it is done with the goal of answering is it worth the extra money. my father that worked at Shell oil for 34 years was the founding member of the aviation branch of SAE, has formulated aviation oils. has shown me test results that Shell has done and really wont publish, think lost profits, but they have never noticed a differance in long term test between dino and synthetic. i use the cheap stuff with the seal on it. |
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:02:08 GMT -5
I don't believe that anyone really has cold hard facts, proving that one is indeed better than the other. If they did, the debate would have stopped long ago. yes they have, search patman on tech, it was a independent test done several times... it showed PROOF by oil analysis which was better at several differant milages... the reason the debate continues is because people too cheap to buy good oil refuse to conseed even when proof is given... by the by... ALL cars have to meet a MINIMUM safety rating... does that mean that all cars are equally safe? ALL gas has to meet minimum standereds does that mean all gas is equal?  |
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:06:58 GMT -5
oh and yes i have read all of Patmans stuff and none of it is done with the goal of answering is it worth the extra money. my father that worked at Shell oil for 34 years was the founding member of the aviation branch of SAE, has formulated aviation oils. has shown me test results that Shell has done and really wont publish, think lost profits, but they have never noticed a differance in long term test between dino and synthetic. i use the cheap stuff with the seal on it. i dont know your father, i do know patman... you can tell were my trust lays.... but this arguement is pointless... you are not going to switch to SYN no matter what is said, posted, or tested.... and i will never put dino crap in my babies... |
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 21:23:00 GMT -5
you say you wont run dino oil, but the so called synthetics you use are a dino base stock. so where does your argument stand?
if your synthetic says on it that you can mix it with non synthetic oils, then its not a true synthetic.
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:30:24 GMT -5
you say you wont run dino oil, but the so called synthetics you use are a dino base stock. so where does your argument stand? if your synthetic says on it that you can mix it with non synthetic oils, then its not a true synthetic. i have seen nothing on either the german castrol OR mobil one that says you can mix them with dino... it is my understanding that niether one is dino based. if you have proof other wise i am open minded ... |
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Post by '68SuperchargedLT1Camaro on Aug 31, 2005 21:30:46 GMT -5
I don't have any cold hard facts, but I know that testing has been done. Doesn't full synthetic have a wider temperature operating range? Of course, I've only read this, but if this is true, it's should be much better for that first start up in the morning. A while back, I was bull $hittin' with an engineer that works for SouthWest Research down here in San Antonio. He told me that Honda contracted them to do a huge engine oil testing project. I lit up like a light bulb when he told me this! Unfortunately, he wasn't allowed to talk about their findings. I was PISSED!  Raymond |
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:34:00 GMT -5
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 21:44:22 GMT -5
you say you wont run dino oil, but the so called synthetics you use are a dino base stock. so where does your argument stand? if your synthetic says on it that you can mix it with non synthetic oils, then its not a true synthetic. i have seen nothing on either the german castrol OR mobil one that says you can mix them with dino... it is my understanding that niether one is dino based. if you have proof other wise i am open minded ... back in the early 90s castrol changed the formula of their syntec to dino base stock to save $. mobil 1 sued them and lost. since then mobil 1 has also gone to dino base stock. i dont know about the german castrol, but it is made by castrol so it wouldnt surprise me if thats dino base stock as well. if so, they can be mixed with dino oils. royal purple race oil and all the redline oils are true synthetic base stock and cannot be mixed. the street royal purple is no better then any of the m1 and all the rest of the stuff. pretty much all the nascar teams run redline. |
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Post by formula97 on Aug 31, 2005 21:47:20 GMT -5
ive always used mobil 1 in my car. the difference between the two is the temp in which they breakdown.synthetics breakdown at a much higher temp then a regular oil would, but the oil temp in our engine wont even reach the temp at which regular oil will breakdown, other damage would happen well before this point. but if youve been using synthetic then you should stay with synthetic, the chemical properties of the two types have different effects on the seals in your engine.
and mobil1 synthetic is full synthetic, some oils are semi synthetic( a mix) but mobil 1 synthetic isnt a mix
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:47:52 GMT -5
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Post by jaberwaki on Aug 31, 2005 21:49:39 GMT -5
i have seen nothing on either the german castrol OR mobil one that says you can mix them with dino... it is my understanding that niether one is dino based. if you have proof other wise i am open minded ... back in the early 90s castrol changed the formula of their syntec to dino base stock to save $. mobil 1 sued them and lost. since then mobil 1 has also gone to dino base stock. i dont know about the german castrol, but it is made by castrol so it wouldnt surprise me if thats dino base stock as well. if so, they can be mixed with dino oils. royal purple race oil and all the redline oils are true synthetic base stock and cannot be mixed. the street royal purple is no better then any of the m1 and all the rest of the stuff. pretty much all the nascar teams run redline. i still have found NO info on mobil 1 changing from PAO/ester stock.... where did you get this info? |
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Post by AAron on Aug 31, 2005 21:51:38 GMT -5
actually they are hype if you engine gets to that tempature then you are in deep $hit. oils break down in the 300 or better usually and engines shouldnt be going over 220. sorry didnt see your post formula97 |
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 22:02:24 GMT -5
the info i have is old and from an oil engineer at RP. i dont think there is anything about it on the internet. im 99% sure M1 no longer uses synth base stocks. its still good oil, but for me, if im gonna use something thin, its gonna be a synthetic base stock like redline. otherwise, ill just use a thick dino oil.
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Post by formula97 on Aug 31, 2005 22:06:38 GMT -5
no worries aaron, just reiterating what i was saying, thanks though
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Post by Alex94TAGT on Aug 31, 2005 22:18:30 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I'm not biased against synthetic, nor for dino. I've run both, although mostly synthetic. However, I just think that, scientifically, it hasn't been proven on a "wide-spread scale" that dino oil is insufficient, or that synthetic is far-and-away better in every single aspect. I think they both seem to work well, when following the directions on the bottle. Either way, we still need BOTH to exist. Synthetic might be better for the motor in the long run according to some testing, but we still need dino oil to break the motor in. *Has anyone proven that an engine running dino oil CANT last as long as a motor using synthetic (with regular oil change intervals, all other things being equal)? I think that's the root of this debate, and why the debate will continue indefinitely. I've read some of Patman's stuff in the past -- he seems very intelligible, and I would certainly trust his results. But that doesn't mean that the entire world will. Who is he exactly? What's his background? Is he just some car enthusiast testing oil in his basement and reporting his findings on a few web forums, or does he have a career in the field? Have his results been backed by a few other scientists (are his results repeatable)? |
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Post by 94m6hardtopz on Aug 31, 2005 22:23:14 GMT -5
there was that million mile chevy truck that used either penzoil or valvoline dino oil.
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