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Post by Fire67 on Oct 13, 2005 11:59:44 GMT -5
So who's got aftermarket engine management for their rides?
Im looking for people who have experience installing such a system in a 4th gen F-body.
Because the PCM's for LT1 cars suck for F/I cars so much, I've been considering the purchase of either Accell DFI or FAST XFI.
What are the cons? I mean what features do I have to give up..
I already know that Traction control goes byebye with the stock PCM; but what about the ABS, factory gauges, and AC system?
Can any of the above be made to work with the DFI/XFI?
I have more questions, but they'll wait.
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 17, 2005 9:37:15 GMT -5
What I really need to know is if the factory gauges can be made to work with either DFI or XFI systems? And if so, how?
I think I can get most everything else to work if this would be possible.
In the little bit of info Ive been able to get so far, Ive found that the AC system can be controlled by both, just no warning for low pressure... No big deal.
If I can make the factory gauges work without re-wiring the whole car, things would be great! I think the ABS system and speedometer just need a vehicle speed signal to work, but they get the signal out of the PCM from the facory. Would the VSS senders output signal match the speed output from the PCM? If not can the signal be converted?
This would greatly ease the transition to aftermarket engine management by avoiding the only other route, which is to gut the ABS and factory gauges, and re-wire everything to accept aftermarket gauges too.
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Post by AAron on Oct 17, 2005 13:16:00 GMT -5
for what you have you might look at going to OBD1 it is cheaper and easier to mess with. for some reason the OBD2 in LT1s isnt as good as the one in the LS1
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 17, 2005 13:53:02 GMT -5
For the motor I plan to build, I really dont want to risk the investment to some quirky stock PCM... Even my buddy's OBD I pcm gives him fits when it comes to fueling...
My other main reason for wanting to go aftermarket FI is the injector size. They are just too d@mn expensive in high impedance/high flow configurations... My current 42.5's are maxed out at 450rwhp, my goals for the new motor are at least about 200hp more than that.
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 17, 2005 14:02:39 GMT -5
So I've been doing research, and it seems that the best way to keep my stock gauges and ABS/TCS is to somehow piggyback either the DFI or XFI into the stock PCM's wiring... The downside is this seems like ALOT of wiring mess and frustration.
The only other route would be to ditch the stock PCM, wiring, gauges, ABS, and TCS altogether. Then install DFI/XFI with it own harness and wire up my own gauges. The downside to this is the fact that the car will then be pretty much a race car, and the conversion would be expensive. Not to mention that I'd be giving up nice things like ABS for the sake of being able to tune my car easier and better.
The research continues, I will keep my findings posted.
Oh yeah, has anyone ever adapted a cam and/or crank position sensor to an LT1 for the sake of running LS1 styled ignition with the aftermarket engine management?
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Post by 1bad2k2ta on Oct 17, 2005 14:05:41 GMT -5
For the motor I plan to build, I really dont want to risk the investment to some quirky stock PCM... Even my buddy's OBD I pcm gives him fits when it comes to fueling... My other main reason for wanting to go aftermarket FI is the injector size. They are just too d@mn expensive in high impedance/high flow configurations... My current 42.5's are maxed out at 450rwhp, my goals for the new motor are at least about 200hp more than that. I bought an Accel DFI for my setup, but was talked out of it. Already had 72lb Siemens low impedence injectors, too. Swapped 'em for 65lb Siemens high impedence and stayed with the stock PCM, for now, anyway. |
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Post by AAron on Oct 17, 2005 17:49:48 GMT -5
the real trick is finding some one that can tune it. the guys at HPE in houston are stand up guys that know the $hit when it comes to LT1s, call them and see what they recomend
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 18, 2005 8:37:57 GMT -5
I have a local tuner that Im really confident with, his real "claim to fame" is tuning LS1's, but I havent had a better tune in my stock PCM from anyone else. But I will call HPE to speak about the advantages and negative aspects of swaping to aftermarket engine management. They must know their $hit if they have the worlds fastest LT1  |
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Post by AAron on Oct 18, 2005 9:07:38 GMT -5
let us know what happens
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 19, 2005 9:24:12 GMT -5
Well, I ended up emailing them, so whenever they get back to me I'll post up.
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Post by AAron on Oct 19, 2005 14:17:50 GMT -5
cool.
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Post by '68SuperchargedLT1Camaro on Oct 23, 2005 9:21:17 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you can keep your stock PCM to control ABS, Traction Control, stock gauges, etc, even if you use an aftermarket engine management setup like DFI or FAST.
As someone stated above, the biggest problem with an aftermarket engine management set up is finding someone to tune it. Try to find an authorized DFI or FAST dealer in your area before you run out and buy one of these setups. I don't know if the rules have changed, but when I picked up my DFI setup almost 4 years ago, Accel wouldn't allow just any "me too" performance shop to be a DFI dealer (Even if you were already an Accel dealer). You had to be an authorized Accel EMIC (Engine Management Installation Center). So if you do find an authorized DFI EMIC, they're probably very good at tuning DFI.
DFI and FAST are both great systems, and are far superior to the stock PCM when it comes to making power. You can't go wrong with either one.
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 26, 2005 10:56:32 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you can keep your stock PCM to control ABS, Traction Control, stock gauges, etc, even if you use an aftermarket engine management setup like DFI or FAST. As someone stated above, the biggest problem with an aftermarket engine management set up is finding someone to tune it. Try to find an authorized DFI or FAST dealer in your area before you run out and buy one of these setups. I don't know if the rules have changed, but when I picked up my DFI setup almost 4 years ago, Accel wouldn't allow just any "me too" performance shop to be a DFI dealer (Even if you were already an Accel dealer). You had to be an authorized Accel EMIC (Engine Management Installation Center). So if you do find an authorized DFI EMIC, they're probably very good at tuning DFI. DFI and FAST are both great systems, and are far superior to the stock PCM when it comes to making power. You can't go wrong with either one. Yeah, Ive been told that you can hook it up piggyback style... i.e. stock pcm disconnected from all engine controls/sensors, left connected to ABS/TCS equip including speed sensor and gauges, then wire in the DFI/XFI to control the motor. This sounds simple, however, upon looking through some of the wiring diagrams it appears to be a wiring nightmare! The beauty is that the old stock engine harness can almost entirely removed, except wiring for pressure and temp sensors. This means leaving alot of useless wiring under the hood, or carefully dismantling the stock harness in order to keep certain sensors and eliminate the rest... Maybe I should get a new or used replacement harness and start taking it apart to get only the neccessary wiring. Any help with reading the wiring diagrams to differentiate neccessary from un-neccessary components would be great Im gonna be buying an Accel DFI gen7 from a friend who has given up on his project, The wiring harness it comes with is designed for a TPI motor (has wiring for dual sync distributor) because he was going to run a modded LT4 intake that's been setup for a dist. He bought it from an EMIC dealer in Sarasota (1/2 hour drive) so tuning is not an issue. |
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 27, 2005 12:36:52 GMT -5
Still no reply from HPE... They must be busy. I did, however, find a company that sets up plug and play engine management systems using Accel or Fast spark/fuel ecm's. These guys basically make an interface that allows one of these systems to be plugged into the factory harness in place of the PCM. As options you can buy the wideband kit, and various speed signal converters and stuch to allow the factory gauges and ABS to work without the PCM... I sent them an email, depending on the answers to the questions I asked, they seem to be able to set me up just the way I want it to do it. Here's a link to their site www.whiteracing.com |
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Post by AAron on Oct 27, 2005 13:06:21 GMT -5
i found calling works best. but i can be rather tenatious some times.
cool link
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 27, 2005 14:06:36 GMT -5
I find that calling does get answers fastest, but Im not much of a phone person. I find I either cant get all the info or forget to ask... But if I write to someone, my questions are all spelled out and the answers I get are also written out. To me its just a more accurate way of getting info... I usually do follow up with a phone call for small unanswered details though.
I suppose writing down a list of questions and picking up the phone would work just as well, Im just not one for making them.
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Post by AAron on Oct 27, 2005 14:54:20 GMT -5
i have to do the list and call thing because i forget things pretty easily
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 28, 2005 8:36:49 GMT -5
Well White Racing emailed back the following:
I first asked him if he had an interface adapter that would allow my stock pcm to stay in place for the sake of ABS and TCS.. Turns out it only needed there for TCS which will go byebye.
Anyone heard of these "BigStuff" systems?
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Post by 1bad2k2ta on Oct 28, 2005 8:58:21 GMT -5
Well White Racing emailed back the following: I first asked him if he had an interface adapter that would allow my stock pcm to stay in place for the sake of ABS and TCS.. Turns out it only needed there for TCS which will go byebye. Anyone heard of these "BigStuff" systems? I have heard of them. Same guy that created the Accel DFI is doing this on his own. A lot of the big power guys on ls1tech.com are changing from FAST and Accel DFI over to them. Here is their website: www.bigstuff3.com |
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 28, 2005 9:47:19 GMT -5
1bad2kta- Thanks for the link! that system is the $hit!
And its the cheapest!
So does anyone know or have experience with adapting a cam position sensor to the LT1 engine? The crank trigger wont be a big deal, but the cam sensor I have no experience with whatsoever. It would be nice to run a coil-on-plug setup without having to buy separate controls for it.
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Post by Fire67 on Oct 31, 2005 10:06:38 GMT -5
White Racing emailed again, they said the intake has to be bored for the cam sensor (similar to boring for a distributor). Then a crank trigger needs to be installed and the BigStuff ECM will run my motor in sequential with LS1 coils and no distributor at all ;D
Sounds like a sure fire way to eliminate the opti once and for all!!!
Its gonna cost around $3500 for a plug and play system, including sensors. Only thing I'd have to get done would be the boring of the intake to be a true plug and play swap.
Because the engine management aspect of building my "dream engine" is sooo expensive, its definitely gonna wait untill I get all my motor parts.
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Post by AAron on Nov 1, 2005 0:47:18 GMT -5
$3500  holy $hit that is a lot of money for a computer |
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Post by Fire67 on Nov 1, 2005 12:58:00 GMT -5
$3500 holy $hit that is a lot of money for a computer $3500 for the ECM, interface adapter, WBO2 setup, a dual sync distributor(instead of LS1 style coils), vehicle speed signal converters for the speedo and ABS, and additional wiring harnesses for WBO2, converter boxes, and etc. For a plug & play setup that keeps ABS and factory gauges, plus allows sequential injection and the elimination of the opti, its not that bad of a price. |
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Post by Fire67 on Nov 1, 2005 13:44:41 GMT -5
Anyone seen or heard of a cam sensor being added to the LT1 for the sake of going DIS?
It'd be nice to eliminate the opti and not have to use a distributor at all.
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Post by AAron on Nov 2, 2005 0:54:18 GMT -5
i guess, but i would do a lot to the stock before i droped that kinda cash
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