building a new car need help

[NEWRACER]

I am about to buy an 89 Camaro that has a 305 and I want to make a Street/Strip car out of it and want to put a 350 in it. But I am new to this forum thing and racing thing. So I wanted to get a few views on what direction I should go. I have been told to go ahead and build a 383 stroker to put in it. But I am not to up on Strokers. Only racing experience I have is circle track. Helped a buddy with it. Also curious on what brand of stuff I should use, not up on what is good to use. Thanks for your help.

[AAron]

i personally dont like strokers myself. and especially the TBI cars they already had gobbs of torque. i like 350 and 406s but the latter gets harder or priceier.

the reason i dont like 383s are because they have too long of a stroke for high reving. yes it can be done but it gets expensive.
the 350 is a great CHEAP engine for the power. and also you can get a tranny to go behind it for daily driving

i write all this and forgot to ask what were you wanting to do with it?

and Welcome

['68SuperchargedLT1Camaro]

As AAron mentioned above, yes, it is typically cheaper to build a 355 over a 383 but,

"There's no Replacement for Displacement". I'll stand by that statement until engine builders stop building engines to the absolute cubic inch limit allowed in the class that the engine will be used in.

So if you don't mind the extra expense of going bigger, I recommend doing it. Sorry AAron, just my opinion. ;D

More displacement almost always means more potential in terms of power, but you have to have all the complimenting parts to allow the engine to rev to the desired RPM. A larger displacement engine will "choke" sooner in the RPM range than an engine of lesser displacement (assuming both engines have identical induction, valve train, and exhaust systems), BUT the larger displacement engine (even if the increase in displacement is a result of a longer stroke) CAN rev to the same RPM, if it's paired with the correct parts. Because it's a bigger engine (more displacement) it will need better flowing heads, intake manifold, exhaust, etc, to feed it enough air to extend it's RPM range. (the cam will need to be set up to work with these parts as well) This will usually give you more power, and a faster car.

With that out of the way, you have to ask yourself, "What is my goal?"

Is it a horse power goal? An E.T. goal? Do you want a street car that's just fun to drive? Is driveability a factor?

And in my opinion the most important question, "How much money do I have, and how much am I willing to spend?"

NEWRACER, what do you want out of this Camaro?

[DocSpeed]

Lets here some of your goals and your budget as Raymond mentioned above. It will be easier for us to give you advice and direction if we know what you are shooting for.

[AAron]

i have no problem with displacment but i would rather do it with bore than with stroke.

do nascar engine builders make long strokes or big bores?

and if you want displacment why not make a 786 big block? www.worldcastings.com/docs/05_cat_pg10.pdf

i was mearly stating the 383 is not what i would chose. it is too long of an arm for its bore. chevy has done studies that a 396 as it was built would of made more power if it was built with a 427 bore and a shorter stroke.

[1bad2k2ta]

aaron said:

i have no problem with displacment but i would rather do it with bore than with stroke.

do nascar engine builders make long strokes or big bores?

and if you want displacment why not make a 786 big block? www.worldcastings.com/docs/05_cat_pg10.pdf

i was mearly stating the 383 is not what i would chose. it is too long of an arm for its bore. chevy has done studies that a 396 as it was built would of made more power if it was built with a 427 bore and a shorter stroke.

It depends on what you plan to do with the car. Bore is good for high rpm horsepower. Stroke will give you great low end torque and more power under the curve; ideal for a street engine. However, due the increased piston speed, detonation becomes a problem at higher rpms on our cars. The LS1s will take a 4" stroke with little to no machining necessary. The LT1s will need significant clearancing with only a 3.75" stroke. All bore motors obviously have to be bored, but there are no clearancing issues with the rotating assembly.
As mentioned earlier, we need more info to be able to give you more accurate opinions/choices. Looks like you may be leaning more toward the SBC rather than a LS1 or LT1. The LT1 more closely resembles the SBC internally. There are also a lot of great crate motors available. Just Google crate motors or crate engines and you will find a plethora of information. First of all, you need to decide what you want to do with the car.

['68SuperchargedLT1Camaro]

aaron said:

i have no problem with displacment but i would rather do it with bore than with stroke.

AAron, I completely agree with you, but we don't have that option with a 4 inch bore small block.

do nascar engine builders make long strokes or big bores?

Good argument! Obviously, you know the answer. I was hoping you'd spring that one on me.

Big bore, short stroke. If you wanted a similar bore/stroke combination in a street small block, you could do an SBC 400 block with a 3.25 inch stroke. These blocks are getting hard to come by though. If they were as common as 4.00" bore SBC blocks, you wouldn't see to many 383's. To bad this scenario isn't reality. In our present situation, 4.00" bore blocks are everywhere you look.

and if you want displacement why not make a 786 big block?

I would absolutely love to, but that block is VERY expensive.

I simply don't have that kind of budget.

I can however afford to get a BBC, Gen IV, 427 Tall Deck block with 4 bolt mains, that sales for $800 brand new. This is a 4.25 inch bore block, and can safely be bored to around 4.31". I can also run longer rods due to the 10.20" deck height. With the 4.25 inch bore, and a 3.76 inch stroke, this would give me 427 cubic inches. With a 4.25 inch bore, and a 4.00 inch stroke crank, this will give me 454 cubic inches. Instead, I'll do a 4.31 inch bore with a 4.25 inch stroke to get 496 cubic inches. Instead of using a 6.135" rod, I'll be able to utilize a 6.535" rod thanks to the tall deck. With my budget, this bore/stroke combination will give me the most power potential.

i was mearly stating the 383 is not what i would chose.

Understood.

it is too long of an arm for its bore.

Why? What research justifies this statement?

chevy has done studies that a 396 as it was built would of made more power if it was built with a 427 bore and a shorter stroke.

I don't doubt that, but I bet a standard 427 (4.25" bore x 3.76" stroke=427cid) would make more power than that short stroke 396 your refering to. (4.25" bore x 3.50" stroke=396cid)(this is a big bore, short stroke 396)

I'll also bet that a standard 454 (4.25" bore x 4.00" stroke) will make more power than a 427 (4.25" bore x 3.76" stroke).

You see where I'm going with this?

Yes, a short stroke, big bore combination is usually ideal in race applications, but not always in street applications were average torque is considered by many to be more important.

If it makes you feel any better, all three of my LT1's have been standard 3.48" stroke motors. It was the cheapest route, and I know I can make decent street power with a supercharged 355. If my budget would have been less limited, these LT1's would have been 383's, and maybe one 396 out of the bunch.

Good argument. Thanks AAron.

Raymond

[NEWRACER]

To answer all you guys question my brother has actually what has made me want to do this and he has a mustang and I want to be able to beat him he is currently running 11.9 at the track. So I guess what I am looking for is a car that will run mid to low 11's and fun to drive if that is possible. Like I said I am new to this so thank you all for your help.

It is going to be about another 6 months or so before I start I am currently overseas, but I am just trying to do some research and find out what I want to do.

[AAron]

how much are you looking to spend?

and as far as mid range torque, the LT1, L98, B2L all 350 ci that have goobs of midrange torque, the L98 and B2L, at one point, were rated with a higher peak torque numbers than the LT1

[NEWRACER]

I am not really cooncearned with price I know it is going to take awhile building up to what I want I just want some place good to start

[AAron]

is the car a TPI? there were 4 power levels on the 305 in '89 the 170 HP base v8 RPO LO3 195 for the auto LB9 and then either 220 or 230 for the LB9 with manual tranny, this depends on the exhaust you got.

[NEWRACER]

Aaron not sure about that one like I said I am overseas and that would have to wait til I get home. Sorry also like I was saying I am just kind of trying to research this so that by the time I get home I will have already decided what I want to do that way all I have to do is build it. But I really aprreciate all you guys helps. Aaron maybe I can get in contact with you cause I live in Lubbock also. Thanks again for all that help. I also can tell one thing about it I know for sure that it is a manual trans

[AAron]

that is great and that sux. the T-5 in the f-body was notoriously weak kneed. that is why it only had the 305 and not the 350. first order of buisness it too up grade.
1. you can upgrade to the ford version the "world class" but it is only good for 330 lb/ft. www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3248&prmenbr=361 now you can buy the parts to upgrade your stock tranny, that would be cheapest.

2. go for either the TKO-500 or 600 they are 5 speeds and i dont believe they would need too much to get them in place of your stock tranny. here are the trannies www.keislerauto.com/gm/camaro.html

3. the 3rd choice is the T-56 which is the best for obvious reasons more gears ;D i would recomend the LS1 version but in your car you might wanna just look for a LT1/T56 or LS1/T56 combo to drop in. they are becoming more common now. they actually have most parts. with very little fabrication. like here www.speartech.com/coproj-1991ls1.html

now too the engine like suggested earlier look at crete engines, too if nothing else give you an idea as too what you are leaning too. here is scoggin-d ickey selection www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/63/Crate-Engines.htm

yeah PM me when you get back, i can show you the manual tranny in the caprice ;D

[Iroc313]

The 355 is cheap makes a good amount of power and will definately drop your quarter mile time about 2 seconds (if you are talking about an L98 I'm not sure about carbs) what me and my brother are doing for a short while till we get some more money together is put the motor in and put a 150 shot of nitrous, then save up for a few years and get a blower or a trash can size turbo. With the TBI I haven't heard too many good things about it but if you dou have one I reccomend putting a TPI in it, but thats just me....

[NEWRACER]

Guys thanks again for all your help and Aaron I will PM you when I get home and maybe we can get together. This really helps like I say I want to get home and already know what I want to do.

[AAron]

not a problem